Curse

Khaunshar · Dec 13, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Hi there,

I am in the process of assembling a pvp centric guild from the remnants of an older one, and the matter of guild hall is coming up.

Now, all of us have moderate experience at arenas and HA, but little other than theoretical knowledge of the GvG environment. We also dont intend to aim for the very top, but rather play an enjoyable style of PvP, so I wonder, are there any guild halls that are considered "lame" to take, are especially disliked or considered easy/boring ? Given that we ll probably be on our own turf as often as on a different one, I know its important to pick one that appeals to us, but since we havent decided on a build yet, I just wanted to know which ones to avoid.

Leaning towards the flooded/uncharted isle right now, mainly due to the layout of the backdoors etc., looks like a map with much variety.

Lightbulb · Dec 13, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Hmmm i guess some peopel find the Fire map lame - limited splits.

Personally i LOVE the Ice isle but its very split heavy so its not for everyone.

Flooded is quite nice too...

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 13, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Choosing a map that suits your build is the most important thing. If you want to run pure 8v8 pressure and punch things in the face, go for something where you won't get run around like Jade or Nomad's Isle. If you want to run a bunch of teleport skills and beat people with movement control, go Frozen or Druid's isle. If you'd rather do a pre-set gank team and force the enemy to fight on two fronts, run Isle of Wurms or Corrupted Isle.

Map choice is probably the most imbalancing aspect of GvG right now, so exploit it to the fullest. You'll always be on your map against stronger teams, so if you tailor your map to your build they'll have a much harder time beating you and you'll get larger rating bonuses.

Farin · Dec 13, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Being a starting guild chances are your build will be quite basic. If that is correct then Warrior's Isle is a good overall map to get the hang of GvG with.

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 13, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaZoO

Being a starting guild chances are your build will be quite basic. If that is correct then Warrior's Isle is a good overall map to get the hang of GvG with.

Warrior's Isle is the most 'all-around' map. You'll get the hang of flagstand play, splits, and handling multiple objectives. If you don't want to focus on any particular playstyle to begin, Warrior's is great for giving you an introduction to GvG as a whole.

sir lockt · Dec 13, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Although warriors is where most of us started... the catapult control require some experience and skill to use properly. Maybe you can give us a (sketch) of the build you are going to use (just post if you run spike, split, balanced, a full build of course is nice as well...)

bluechestdude · Dec 13, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

personally i love the burning isle and the frozen isle, for the burning run a full spike and they have no hope (unless of course ur spike sucks)...Frozen isle is very splitable but hey looks cool and gives bonus against melees kite around the ice and have someone knockdown (eg gale) to slow melee way down.

but warrior isle is a very easy all round map, and u gain exp from using the cat, suggestions for using the cat would be get the fr to take the kit back to the gl or somewhere near so the enemy cant get it..using the cat in vod will take out many of the enemies npcs as well...(but first u need ur repair kit as they would have done the same thing as you at the start of the game).

But other than that the hall is really up to you, u might find some halls are harder to play than others, take ur core guys around to check out halls and if u dont like one raise money and change it (sigils are like 8k or somewhere around there.) Like i thought playiung isle of the weeping stone was a great map for me...but after a spate of losses i figured that the map was hard to play, changing to the corrupted isle gave us a boost of wins...so yeh its really up to you,

Servant of Kali · Dec 13, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

GvG doesnt really need more guilds who can only play Burning Isle.

And advising a spike build to a guild who is trying to learn GvG is so utterly pointless, and harmful.

As for the OP - take a look at GHalls, pick the one you like the most, and learn how to play it. Simple as that. You said you like Flooded/Uncharted, that's cool i love that map too. No reason not to pick it them. It has nice lush and seems enjoyable to play on it

Quote:

are there any guild halls that are considered "lame" to take, are especially disliked or considered easy/boring ?

Burning and Jade. Boring, and lame.
You'll win more matches perhaps at the expense of learning how to play. If your guild is all about winning though, pick some spike build and choose one of these two halls.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 13, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khaunshar

but since we havent decided on a build yet, I just wanted to know which ones to avoid.

There are none to avoid yet since you haven't decided upon a build. Any isle easy to split upon (frozen, druid's, and ESPECIALLY Isle of Wurms) is bad if you're playing caster spike. If you run a split build, You don't want the popular spike isles: burning and jade.

Decide, generally, what your build is going to be, then come back with it and I think posts would be a bit more specific.

Blame the Monks · Dec 13, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

In my opinion, druids is the best hall for a beginner. It is flexible enough for 8v8 and splits, lacks a game breaking random catapult, and it comes preinstalled with mending, so your wammos can bring an extra skill!

leeky baby · Dec 13, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

the warrior hall is pretty fun

Khaunshar · Dec 13, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Hi again,

thanks a lot for the nice responses.
As to our build, we are leaning towards a hex-heavy pressure build, with added solo Assassin ganker.

so far skills arent set in stone yet, but we are looking at:

Assassin
Monk
Monk
Ritualist (as warmongers/fury buffer most likely)
Mesmer
Mesmer
Necro
Dervish (Melandrus Avatar etc., nothing special)

We intentionally avoid using warriors as most of us (6) want to try and get used to playing with dervishes instead, to see if that can work.

so, mostly hex degen, some condition pressure.

We certainly dont want to go spike as most of us have played a lot of that in HA back before the 6v6 change, and its time for a change

Former Ruling · Dec 13, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

You probably won't be able to handle split well starting off (either your own split OR handling theirs) so a map that the split is easy to handle will probably be more to your advantage.

Warriors (and the two isles similar to it) is pretty "all around".

Most fights take place at the central flagstand or get pushed into one of the bases if a team is dropping. Splits can happen off the side paths into the side entrances of the bases but a Guild Theif is required to get in and its pretty easy to see and know whats going to your base off that path and you need some experience in dealing with it.

Some "newbie" important factors I guess:
1) At the start, have someone (a caster like an ele or mesmer) take up the first flag so your flag runner can get the "Repair Kit" from the hill outside and take it into your base around your guild lord so the other team cant steal it easily. He'll then be in position to either wait for another flag there to bring up, or give heal party support.

2) Never just cap the flagstand at the start, either try to kill the member that has their flag and return it then cap yours, or try to wait for them to cap and you cap over them. Remember though they will be doing the same thing so use some smarts in to when to cap it. Its always to your advantage to be "up on flags" that means always having a flag near the flagstand ready to cap it from them if needed, Don't be discouraged if all that ever happens during the match is yall alternating control of the flag every minute or so - thats alot better than letting them get a boost.

3) At some point during the game its usually a popular startegy to take that kit you had hid in your base, and go with it outside the alternate path and repair their catapult with it. This is either used to kill them while they are retreating into their base (if you are winning) or to push up to at VoD to take out their NPCs with (if the game is still at the flagstand). Protecting yours from this happening is also important.

EDIT: Noticing your Hex build idea, then you REALLY don't want to split, making a map where the main fight isnt a split fight even more promising. I also noticed you didn't call anyone in that build a Flag runner. Having a flag runner (or atleast a few people with strong support for running) is going to make your time alot easier. Most people dedicate an Elementalist to running (and spamming Heal Party through Ether Prdoigy when not running) or a Monk using Light of Deliverance and the same such. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest this over the ritualist >_>

Seamus Finn · Dec 13, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Is your hall choice based on getting better? or getting better rating?

I have no idea how good you guys are, but generally speaking, new guilds suck anyhow at first. If I were in your position, I would take a catapult clone map just because catapults are pretty game changing and I would want to get a hang of em ASAP. It's got teh Thieves too which are also common on a lot of maps and require strategy to using effectively. You can fight straight up or split.... the list goes on.

If you just want to win though... do as Squidget says and use your map for free wins. The most glaring is spike on Burning or Jade. Your build is still too vague to really comment on at the moment. I could see a way to use those classes for a strong gank team or a pure pressure team at the stand.

As someone who monks a lot I have to say there are some maps I loathe jsut because the visibility for spike catching can be a pain...

Parkerbsb · Dec 13, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

If you want my opinion don't pick isle of weeping stone. ever.

bluechestdude · Dec 14, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

ill of weeping stone will kill the build u got there if u stand in the mushies...for a hex pressure i suggest do warriors, i suggest this if ur starting off like everyone said, but if u wanted to change to a large aoe damage team then u can do that too the area around the flag stand isnt that large which makes it hard for enemy spell casters to kite, they can run around in circles letting the rest of the team hit them (not only melee) or pull back allowing ur team to push forward, of course this goes the same as you...but then again u wouldnt have spell casters at the front line..

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 14, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

In my opinion, druids is the best hall for a beginner. It is flexible enough for 8v8 and splits, lacks a game breaking random catapult, and it comes preinstalled with mending, so your wammos can bring an extra skill!

The only thing that bugs me a bit about Druid's Isle for new players is the lack of support NPCs. Support NPCs (like the ones on Warrior's Isle and friends) are great for new players because you have to take them out before you can run around and wreck havoc in their backline. When you play stronger teams, you'll get a better chance to identify how their offense and defense are working while they pull out and slaughter your footmen.

Warskull · Dec 14, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Druid's Isle is by far the best for a new build.

1) It holds options for all builds. Thus you don't have to spend a ton of cash as you shift builds and figure out your play style. In addition other teams will have a lot of tactics to use against you (letting you learn.)

2) There is a lot of room for positioning. This will help you learn about battlefield positions along mid, front, and backlines. It will also teach you what is to be gained by playing offensively and when to play defensively.

3) It has a room for movement without going nuts like the frozen isle.

It is overall one of the best maps to learn on and will work with almost any build you come up with.

Servant of Kali · Dec 14, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

How good is split on Weeping Stone, how easy it is to prevent split if you're holding the middle etc etc, who can and how open the passage near the flag stand which leads to the other side of the map (if i got the map right)? No one plays on this map, which is why it's interesting to me. If it's confusing, that's good because home team can learn it better. How easy it is to accidentally run into those mushrooms and pick up spores? Is it better map for non-casters than casters? In which situations would one pick this map etc etc?

Seriously, thing is, no one plays this map, and i just cant learn how it's properly played. The last time someone was playing this map is in the days of spirit spam. Ever since i havent seen it being played.

ps: actually instead of all this, maybe the best question is - why isnt this map played?

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 14, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

ps: actually instead of all this, maybe the best question is - why isnt this map played?

It's not heavily played for a couple reasons:

-When it was released, there were a lot of issues with people getting stuck there, far more than on other maps. These seem to have mostly cleared up now, but they were pretty bad previously.

-Stone Spores. The near-random way these things are set up allows a team to just break with no warning. Stone spores don't affect warriors and casters equally at all - having your warriors unable to hit things for a few seconds is annoying, but if your monks have double casttimes that's often enough to break your team. No one wants to lose matches to random factors.